THEAGES, OR ON WISDOM FOLIO 5

THEAGES. Indeed. SOCRATES. But after he said, "Tyrants are wise by the company of the wise": if we asked him: "In what matter, O Euripides, are they wise?" what do you think he would answer? THEAGES. By Jupiter, I do not know. SOCRATES. Do you want me to tell you? THEAGES. As you please. SOCRATES. These are the things which Anacreon says Callicrate A reference to a figure in Anacreon's poetry, likely a beautiful youth or a person of influence herself knew. Have you heard the song? THEAGES. I have. SOCRATES. What then: do you desire the company of a man of this kind, who would be a partner in the same art as that which Callicrate, the daughter of Cyanes, knew? And would he know the tyrannical things which the poet says Callicrate knew, so that you might become a tyrant for us and for the city? THEAGES. For a long time now you have been biting me, Socrates, and mocking me. SOCRATES. Why so? Do you not say that you desire this wisdom by which you might rule over all citizens? And yet in doing this, would you be anything other than a tyrant? THEAGES. I would certainly pray to obtain the tyranny over all men, or as many as possible—which I think is the same for you and all others—or rather, to be a God. Nevertheless, I was not saying that I sought this. SOCRATES. What then is this that you desire? Is it not to lead the citizens? THEAGES. Not by force, certainly, nor as tyrants do, but over those who are willing: just as other men in the city who are masters of reason do. SOCRATES. Do you mean, then, such as Themistocles was, and Pericles, and Cimon, and whoever else flourished in the administration of the republic? THEAGES. By Jupiter, those are the ones I mean. SOCRATES. But what if you sought to become a noble horseman: and wise in that art, to whom would you go to achieve this, except to the horsemen? THEAGES. To no others. SOCRATES. Naturally, to those very ones who excel in the equestrian art, and who use many horses, both our own and those of others. THEAGES. Of course. SOCRATES. And in the same way, if you desired to acquire the art of throwing the javelin wisely, you would go to those who throw the javelin best, and who use many spears, both those of others and their own. THEAGES. So it seems to me. SOCRATES. Come then: since you wish to be educated in civil matters: do you think you should go to any others to become wise in these things, than to these statesmen, who are most powerful in civil discipline: and who use it, both in their fatherland and in other cities, both Greek and barbarian? Or do you think you can obtain the wisdom of those things from others, which these men alone have learned? THEAGES. I have heard certain speeches, Socrates, which they claim are yours, that the sons of statesmen are no better than the sons of cobblers. And in my opinion, you speak the truth. I would be foolish, therefore, if I persuaded myself that any of those men would hand over his wisdom to me, when they do not help their own sons at all; and if I thought I could be of use to anyone in any matter concerning these things. SOCRATES. How would you turn yourself, O best of men, if you had a son: and he gave you these troubles, and showed that he desired to turn out to be the best painter: but if you were unwilling to spend any money on him for the sake of these things, and he despised the painters who are masters of this thing, and did not want to learn anything from them? Or if he wanted to become a flute-player or even a lyre-player, would you have a place to use him, or anywhere else to send him, if he were unwilling to learn from them? THEAGES. Not at all, by Jupiter. SOCRATES. Now, therefore, doing these same things against your father, do you wonder and get angry if he doubts what to do with you, and where to send you: since we are ready to commend you to any of the most excellent Athenians in the administration of the republic you wish: who will spend time with you without a fee: and at the same time you will not spend money, and you will be much more honored by the common people than if you associated with others? THEAGES. What then, Socrates, are you not one of the good men? If you take me on, I am satisfied and will seek no other. SOCRATES. Why do you say this? DEMODOCUS. He does not speak badly, O Socrates, nor could anything be more pleasant or useful to me, as I think, than if your company pleased him: and if you were willing to spend time with him: and indeed I am prevented by shame from saying how vehemently I desire it. Therefore I would wish you both to be asked: you, to be willing to take him on: and you, not to seek anyone other than Socrates: and I pray that I may be freed from the greatest cares and fears: for now I fear vehemently lest he seek the company of someone else, by whom he might then be ruined. THEAGES. Fear for me no longer, my father, if you can persuade this man to take me on. DEMODOCUS. You speak rightly: and toward you, O Socrates, all speech hereafter will be directed. For I, to speak most briefly: most gladly hand over to you myself and all my most dear things, whatever you may need: if you will take on this Theages: and as far as you are able: do him good. SOCRATES. Indeed, O Demodocus, I do not wonder at this zeal of yours: if indeed you think he can be helped most by me. For I do not know to what matter anyone who has a mind ought to apply greater diligence, than that he should make his son the best possible.

Greater diligence should be applied to nothing than to a son.

But from where did it seem so to you, namely that I could make your son a better citizen than you yourself? And from where did he persuade himself that he could be helped more by me than by you in this matter? For I wonder at that vehemently: for you are first of all older: then you have performed many and great magistracies among the Athenians: nor is anyone more honored than you by the people of Anagyrus A deme or district of ancient Attica and the rest of the citizens. But in me, neither of you sees any of these things. But if this Theages despises the company of statesmen, and seeks others who profess to instruct young men, there is here Prodicus of Chios and Gorgias of Leontini and Polus of Agrigentum, and many others, who are so wise that when they enter cities they entice the most noble and wealthiest youths to themselves: whom they allow to enjoy a pleasant familiarity with whichever citizens they wish: whom they persuade, having left their former company, to join with them, bringing a great price in silver, and besides feeling the greatest gratitude.

From these, therefore, it was fitting for you and your son to choose someone: but it is not appropriate to have chosen me for it. For I profess none of those blessed and beautiful disciplines: though I would wish they were present in me. But I always say that I know nothing except a certain small discipline of loving. In this discipline, I seem to be quite powerful among any men, both those of the past and also those present. THEAGES. Do you see, father, that this Socrates does not much accept my company? For as far as I am concerned, I am ready, provided he himself is willing, but he says all these things in jest against us. For I know of my equals and those somewhat older...